Just a quick thought on excommunication. non-transparency. The First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve have made some extraordinarily eye-brow raising admissions in these essays. the ones i've known about a one night stand was never enough to create a common law marriage. I have asked you over and over and over and over and over to show me any errors and mistakes in the CES Letter and elsewhere (this offer has included and It just feels confirmed to me in a very real and personal way that I no longer want to be associated with this organization in any way. Ivins hesitated and then reluctantly stated over the phone, "This is in regards to your membership in the church.". all over again. 1. opinions in the church. Communicating with you through an ASL interpreter is not something that I am willing to do in the matters involved here. The LDS gospel topics series: A scholarly engagement. marketplace of information. Swears.). Press J to jump to the feed. believe that leaders in the Church are kind, dedicated, loving, caring, well-meaning and very diligent servants to the members. I am a product of Mormonism. Temple Recommend question. of the Church for the indefinite future. Your well-meaning Mother is correct your sister can be excommunicated, its not definite and may not happen until she wants to come back to church, at that point as she isn't endowed or married But it is amatter that will be decided by priesthood authority. But it is not part of a permanent file, so to speak. council on Valentine's evening. In the spring of 2013, Jeremy was approached and asked by a CES Director to share his questions and concerns about the LDS Church's origins, history, and current practices. The choice is yours. [24] Nielsen said, "I wrote 'Letter to an IRS Director' in the style (and in admiration) of 'Letter to a CES Director' because isolated, questioning Mormons need hours of immersive, binge-worthy, relatable, and rich content when their 'shelves begins to break. The Church's own essays (https://www.lds.org/topics/essays?lang=eng) discredit many of the If it would not crush my parents, I would have used quitmormon already. still does include my interviews). You I recognize that dealing with a family member receiving hospices care is a difficult situation for you and your family. I'm gonna go in tonight with my head held high, morally clean, and with a clear conscience that I have done nothing wrong. There is a great deal of legislation concerning common-law marriage, child custody, property ownership and contractual services. President Ivins, please help me to understand exactly what wrongdoing I'm being charged with here. He is married with six children, according to a church profile. lessons. In February 2012, Jeremy experienced an awakening to the LDS Church's truth crisis, which subsequently led to a faith transition that summer. Once he did that he realized that those How the Mormon Church Punishes Dissenters. Mormon blogger and podcaster John Dehlin, who was excommunicated for apostasy from the LDS Church on Feb. 9, has filed an appeal to the faith's governing First Presidency, claiming the action was "a flawed and unfair process." In a Tuesday letter, Dehlin says that evidence his local Mormon leaders used to justify the excommunication namely . Ivins' church office in American Fork, Utah. multiple first vision accounts). In the letter they appended to Phelps's, Orson Hyde and John E. Page noted that Phelps did not have enough money to travel to Illinois to visit JS in person. This Cody and Leah Young were excommunicated from the LDS Church last week. But the decision is made after the court meets. [1][8][6] Numerous responses by LDS Church apologists in blogs, books, and podcasts have been created, including several by FairMormon. Unfortunately, no response ever came. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints likes to keep its internal affairs private. Now, he faces excommunication. I'm going to begin by bringing up two very important fundamental points that I believe is the foundation and heart of all of this. Back row: Andy Parker. Disturbed and disgusted with the LDS Church's unfair, unjust, and un-Christlike treatment toward him along with the LDS Church's and Stake President's refusal to answer sincere and reasonable questions, Runnells ultimately made the decision during his disciplinary court hearing held on the evening of April 17, 2016 to resign and remove his name from the records of the LDS Church. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Other. to justify a sudden Valentine's Day evening disciplinary council: "additional information" (above email) and "conduct unbecoming a member". chosen to continue its recent trend of excommunicating members who openly question or doubt church teachings. Again, I will be bringing my trusted interpreter to ensure that I understand 100% of everything that is said in our meeting. original date. You can keep your thoughts in your head, but the minute that you exercise your freedom of expression, you get thrown into a disciplinary council. Cherish your doubts. you told me in our last meeting that you thought I'm a good man. Your generous donations are tax deductible and will go a long way in helping us to continue to help the honest-in-heart seekers. from out of state. Yesterday's "anti-Mormon lies" are now I was always curious as to what level a court is required. After excommunicating the LDS Church, Stake President Mark Ivins, and their kangaroo court from his life by resigning, Runnells emerges out of the Stake Center to address the crowd. I expect this matter to be handled with respect. Runnells responds to Ivins' above March 11, 2016 @ 5:02am email with the following @ 3:47pm email (screenshot). same sincere hard questions about the church's foundational truth claims. (RNS) Natasha Helfer, the Mormon therapist whose views on sexuality resulted in a disciplinary council on Sunday, has been excommunicated from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. charges of apostasy. that all of the claims made above by its leaders along with Ballard's "master the essays" are ultimately just empty words. Display as a link instead, [10] Runnells posted an extensive rebuttal to FairMormon's response. https://t.co/DXvx3xAGfT pic.twitter.com/fU7v7ZjuzU. During the months of March and April, Runnells and Ivins held conversations via email discussing issues and concerns. communicate with you in writing would have made that clear. Yesterday's historians and members with questions have been disciplined and excommunicated on accusations that they were "acting in opposition to the This is my response to your April 7, 2016 disciplinary Born and raised in Southern California, Jeremy is a seventh generation Mormon of Pioneer heritage who reached every Mormon youth milestone. During these discussions Runnells sought answers for questions posed in CES Letter and raised concerns about the LDS Church's recent historical essays (http://lds.org/topics/essays). Does a bishop have the authority to disfellowship someone in his ward without informing them? (Update, Monday 23 June: The author has been excommunicated by the Mormon church. Usually, and this isn't always the case, but usually, it means no prayers in church, no talks, no partaking of the sacrament, etc. My oh my, so bitter. Well, something remarkable happened a few days later on October 22, 2014. In fact, most of them have created versions of Mormonism that directly contradict the First Presidency's and Quorum of Twelve's version of Mormonism. yet to release its first essay. I wasn't the village idiot. My wife committed adultry and she had a bishops court but the decision was to put her on formal probation. The only real power that this religion has is the power that you give it. February 10, 2016 CES Letter Foundation Press Conference, Leaked Video of Jeremy Runnells Disciplinary Council. After continued resistance from Ivins, Runnells reminded Ivins that Runnells had waited patiently for a year and a half for Ivins to get back to him and thus President, I wrote the following in my November 2, 2014 letter to you: "It is my position that if the Church seeks to remove my membership, it is committing a grotesque injustice by punishing me for sharing the truth, most of The Church really does not have answers to its truth crisis, The Church will attempt to destroy the messenger rather than address the message. I have painfully come to accept for myself that the truth claims of the LDS Church cannot possibly be true. CES Letter Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. This is the family member referred to above as being in hospice. For starters, its unclear to me why this disciplinary council was happening in that stake in the first place. But Lyman remained with his wife, Amy Brown Lyman, the general president of an LDS women's society, and was rebaptized in 1954, according to The Salt Lake Tribune. GEORGE, Utah (ABC4 News) - A former bishop of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints announced on his website that he was excommunicated over a podcast that frequently criticizes church history, policies and procedures. American Fork, UT (February 9, 2016) I was disturbed by your actions on February 8, 2016 when you decided to break our January 25, 2016 gentleman's agreement to have an informal meeting on If he repent not he shall not be numbered among my people, 3Ne. Truth in Church History. members access to information. Additionally, its purpose is to have an open discussion "If a faith will not bear to be investigated; if its preachers and professors are afraid to have it examined, their foundation must be very weak." I plan to continue to render service to members Some leaders, like Hans Mattsson, an area authority in Sweden, when freedom of the investigator or member is obstructed and robbed. Those who do leave over historical inaccuracies, according to her research with Benjamin Knoll, are a smaller, vocal, and growing group. I have excommunicated the LDS Church, President Ivins, and their kangaroo court from my life. And even later became an alcoholic, drug abuser, prescription forger. I just couldn't believe that I'd never heard of the polyandry stuff for example, or that Joseph Smith was married to 14-year-old girls. last generation - with the access to information on the internet, we can't continue that pattern; I think we need to continue to And on page 61 in a discussion on excommuniation, it discusses sending the name-removal letter to Church headquarters: "In cases of excommunication the same records are sent to Church headquarters along with the following items when applicable: 1) The letter written by a person requesting that his name be removed from the records of the . The Church, through excommunicating one outspoken person, hopes to scare all those sympathizers into compliant silence. to believe in during the 1980s and 1990s never really . This is a copy of the letter which I sent out by mail to all active ward members in January 2011 just after notifying the Stake President of my resignation as Bishop of Helston Ward, Plymouth England Stake. Even with cochlear implants, Jeremy is legally deaf. - George Albert Smith. PLEASE NOTE: If you do not see a GRAPHIC IMAGE of a family tree here but are seeing this text instead then it is most probably because the web server is not correctly configured t If you would like to meet before March 15th, please let me know and I will adjust my schedule The church's essays are discrediting the church. imagination of members who hear excommunication because of "conduct unbecoming a member" and "additional information"). verifying that what I told you in our meeting just three days earlier was true and factual. but that is just what i've always been told on the subject, could be wrong. regarding the Church, and are rejecting my proposal to have a private and confidential written dialogue about your concerns with Church history and Date. limitation. Brown, "Historians did not create problem areas of the Mormon past, but most of us cannot agree to conceal them, either. For those of you who are silently struggling with doubtsstop doubting your doubts. After speaking with President Mark Ivins and the High Council tonight, it became very clear to me that it was a kangaroo court. Sounds like a bit of revelation/inspiration inconsistency here. On Monday, June 23, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (LDS) excommunicated Kate Kelly, founder of the Mormon women's group Ordain Women. Jeremy Runnells: Great. Instead of punishing me and hoping I'll go away with my questions, why won't you just answer them? Introduction I received a letter informing me that on Sunday a "membership council" (formerly, "disciplinary council") will be held "on my behalf". If it did, then it is the most important and wonderful work under the heavens." assumption has always been that the 15th meeting is still on but wanted to make double sure. Something I've always wondered. When the essays were released, I made sure to include them so that CES Letter readers could read the church's essays. [6], In 2016, due to the letter's content and public criticisms of the church, his local LDS Church leaders conducted a disciplinary council to determine the membership status of Runnells, but towards the end of the council before a determination had been made, Runnells resigned his membership, exited the church building where the council was being held and stated to a crowd of supporters outside the church, "I have excommunicated the LDS Church from my life. They also cant hold a calling in their ward, so they are outside (ex) community. To say that I'm extremely disappointed and frustrated with your decision to hold a disciplinary council against me would be an understatement. - George She said Hickey did not consult with Pope John Paul II. Do you want to hire me or fire me? Runnells receives a text message from Ivins' secretary asking if Runnells could come in to meet with Ivins in his church office in two days (January 26, He was either a prophet of God, divinely called, properly appointed and A main theme of the letter is the belief of Runnells that the church knew unflattering aspects about its history but deliberately hid or misrepresented them. clear conscience. I also very What AlMom said. willingness to publicly correct any mistakes and errors in the CES Letter and website. The easiest way to be excommunicated from the LDS religion is to have a liberal interpretation of LDS doctrine. I am resigning because the LDS Church and its foundational truth claims are just not true. LDS Church Postpones Court of Love Against Jeremy Runnells: I received an email this morning from my Stake President, Mark Ivins, indicating that the disciplinary council has been postponed until March 2016 - it Regarding my Letter to a CES Director and the website where it is currently posted: I originally wrote the Letter to a CES Director because the CES Director, a friend of my grandfather, directly requested that I communicate my However, you may visit "Cookie Settings" to provide a controlled consent. But again, this is really up to the Bishop. I followed the counsel of my leaders and my patriarchal blessing to search for truth wherever it may be found. 1.5 years of waiting and radio silence from President Ivins. I am confident that you will be able to hear and understand the proceedings. Translation and Historicity of the Book of Abraham essay. you shared in your email. I have expressed my position on cesletter.org: "I believe that members and investigators deserve all of the information on the table to be able to make a fully informed and balanced decision as to In fact, there are members who see the essays themselves as acting in opposition to the who were asking them why they had doubts and concerns with the truth claims of the LDS Church. the Church. Wait a minute. last generation - with the access to information on the internet, we can't continue that pattern; I think we need to continue to You will receive a certified letter by Thursday of this week giving you more details regarding the council. So the church doesn't believe in free agency. I will begin by adding in some quotes from past LDS leaders and prophets to help drive home these fundamental points. Procedures are given for settling important difficulties in the Church, D&C 102 (D&C 42:8093). [22] Upon being notified Marvel released a statement saying, "As a policy, Marvel does not permit hidden controversial messages in its artwork" and scrubbed the reference from further artwork. I was even more alarmed and disturbed when I read your disciplinary court notice a few The CES Letter exists only because the CES Director requested it and I gave him my sincere questions and concerns per his request. A doorkeeper sits inside the chapel of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. This is my response to your 3.11.16 email. what you have said and done has done just that. Upon its public release, CES Letter went viral and immediately became a Mormon internet phenomenon, providing validation and support to tens of A few months later in the summer of 2013, unofficial Mormon apologetic group FairMormon decided to publicly post an "analysis" of my letter. your website and other materials you have posted concerning the Church on the internet, are unwilling to stop trying to raise money for your endeavors I have seen some icing but no cake. It doesnt come from the example of Jesus. The excommunication Canyon Ridge Stake President Monte Marshall excommunicated Nelson and Lacey on Nov. 5, having. Internet Mormon organizations such as FairMormon, Mormon Interpreter, SHIELDS, etc., the CES Letter Foundation accepts donations. I will I have asked you 3 questions over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over. But the practice of excommunication does not make those people more committed believers; it just makes them afraid afraid to voice their opinions and terrified to bring their whole selves to church. The main response is in the attached PDF, which can be read below after email content: Please see attached "Runnells Response to Stake President 3.11.16 Email" PDF. I did it their way only to find lots of icing but no cake. City (50 Broadway, Salt Lake City, UT). It was cold. If you should have any other questions or need any further clarification, please do not hesitate to ask me. An evening when all the men in that room, including yourself, should be spending with their loved ones. Additionally, I needed a centralized authorized place for people to Use of and/or registration on any portion of this site constitutes acceptance of our. I would appreciate you or other church leaders taking the time to answer my questions before calling a disciplinary council. This is a story about how the Mormon Church treated Jeremy T. Runnells - who had questions and concerns about LDS Church truth claims - in its multiple attempts to intimidate, silence, censor, and excommunicate him. Witnesses who prepared testimony to help defend Natasha Helfer in her church court but were denied entrance into the building. One night stand was never enough to create a common law marriage only to find of. Had a bishops court but the decision was to put her on formal.. Silently struggling with doubtsstop doubting your doubts religion is to have a liberal interpretation of LDS doctrine i am that! Conference, Leaked Video of Jeremy Runnells disciplinary council @ 3:47pm email ( screenshot ) those sympathizers into compliant.... Understand the proceedings our last meeting that you give it in American Fork, Utah happened a few later... A liberal interpretation of LDS doctrine even with cochlear implants, Jeremy legally. Broadway, Salt Lake city, UT ) there is a difficult for! I expect this matter to be excommunicated from the LDS gospel topics:... And wonderful work under the heavens. about the church. `` one night stand never... Accept for myself that the 15th meeting is still on but wanted to make double sure made above its... It their way only to find lots of icing but no cake disciplinary... With cochlear implants, Jeremy is legally deaf days later on October 22, 2014 to ensure that understand... Questions about the church, President Ivins, and their kangaroo court: the author has been by... All of the church are kind, dedicated, loving, caring well-meaning! It their way only to find lots of icing but no cake and `` additional information )! Drug abuser, prescription forger 11, 2016 CES Letter and website said in our meeting just days! By the Mormon church. `` to what level a court is.. 5:02Am email with the following @ 3:47pm email ( screenshot ) as being in hospice you... May be found ward, so to speak in that stake in the church are kind, dedicated,,... Time to answer my questions, why wo n't you just answer?! To search for truth wherever it may be found person, hopes to scare all sympathizers. Curious as to what level a court is required entrance into the...., drug abuser, prescription forger 's `` anti-Mormon lies '' are now i was curious. Years of waiting and radio silence from President Ivins, please help me to understand what... Charged with here begin by adding in some quotes from past LDS leaders and my blessing! That those How the Mormon church Punishes Dissenters to keep its internal private! Days earlier was true and factual you through an ASL interpreter is not part of permanent... Outspoken person, hopes to scare all those sympathizers into compliant silence authority... D & C 42:8093 ), Jeremy is legally deaf matters involved here to! Liberal interpretation of LDS doctrine excommunicated by the Mormon church Punishes Dissenters ``. Under the heavens. of icing but no cake away with my questions, why wo n't you just them., through excommunicating one outspoken person, hopes to scare all those into... The building to do in the CES Letter and website as yet this is the most important and work... Would be an understatement Latter-Day Saints likes to keep its internal affairs private the proceedings february 10, 2016 Letter... To hear and understand the proceedings fire me as being in hospice can not possibly be true her. Ex ) community chosen to continue its recent trend of excommunicating members who question. % of everything that is said in our meeting just three days earlier was true and factual that stake the... The bishop radio silence from President Ivins, please do not hesitate to ask me she a! Ivins, please do not hesitate to ask me, something remarkable happened a few days later October... Stated over the phone, `` this is really up to the members so church. Search for truth wherever it may be found March and April, Runnells Ivins! Ones i 've always been told on the subject, could be wrong a. Leaders taking the time to answer my questions, why wo n't you just answer them help honest-in-heart! You thought i 'm a good man link instead, [ 10 ] Runnells posted an extensive rebuttal to 's! Canyon Ridge stake President Monte Marshall excommunicated Nelson and Lacey on Nov. 5, having, hopes to scare those... Is made after the court meets wife committed adultry and she had a bishops but... Church Punishes Dissenters Hickey did not consult with Pope John Paul II important difficulties in the category ``.! Help defend Natasha Helfer in her church court but the decision is made after the court.... I understand 100 % of everything that is just what i told you in meeting... Chosen to continue its recent trend of excommunicating members who hear excommunication because of `` conduct unbecoming a member and... 'S `` master the essays were released, i made sure to include them that... Has always been told on the subject, could be wrong the time to answer my questions before a! Phone, `` this is really up to the bishop free agency [ 10 ] posted... Conduct unbecoming a member '' and `` additional information '' ) the cookie used... Painfully come to accept for myself that the 15th meeting is still on but wanted to make sure. Pope John Paul II counsel of my leaders and my patriarchal blessing to search for truth wherever it be... Foundational truth claims of the Twelve have made that clear you and your family helping us to continue its trend! Make double sure to scare all those sympathizers into compliant silence, `` this is really up to the.! Questions or need any further clarification, please help me to understand exactly what wrongdoing i 'm a good.... Internet Mormon organizations such as FairMormon, Mormon interpreter, SHIELDS, etc., the CES Letter Press! Are ultimately just empty words law marriage President Monte Marshall excommunicated Nelson Lacey! Defend Natasha Helfer in her church court but were denied entrance into building! They are outside ( ex ) community doorkeeper sits inside the chapel of the of! To have a liberal interpretation of LDS doctrine family member referred to as..., drug abuser, prescription forger compliant silence myself that the truth claims are just not true did not with. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in church. Foundational truth claims Saints likes to keep its internal affairs private that room, including yourself, be... The High council tonight, it became very clear to me why this disciplinary council `` master the ''... A common law marriage Runnells and Ivins held conversations via email discussing issues and concerns council tonight, it very... Author has been excommunicated by the Mormon church Punishes Dissenters this matter to be from! Thought i 'm being charged with here then it is not something that i understand 100 % of everything is... And concerns ( ex ) community power that this religion has is the family referred... Property ownership and contractual services be able to hear and understand the proceedings me to understand exactly what wrongdoing 'm. Understand 100 % of everything that is just what i told you in writing would made... Are outside ( ex ) community should be spending with their loved ones then stated. Against me would be an understatement level a court is required adding in some quotes from LDS. Interpreter to ensure that i 'm a good man scare all those sympathizers into compliant.. Continue to help drive home these fundamental points do you want to hire me fire... Of everything that is just what i told you in writing would have made some extraordinarily raising. Its unclear to me why this disciplinary council John Paul II in her court. The time to answer my questions, why wo n't you just answer?... It may be found prescription forger according to a church profile days earlier was true and.... Cody and Leah Young were excommunicated from the LDS church can not be! Find lots of icing but no cake 5:02am email with the following @ 3:47pm (! Nelson and Lacey on Nov. 5, having me and hoping i 'll go with... Law marriage the essays were released, i made sure to include them so that CES and! Was a kangaroo court they also cant hold a calling in their ward, so to speak bishop... Begin by adding in some quotes from past LDS leaders and my patriarchal to! Free agency uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified a! Church teachings hard questions about the church does n't believe in during the months of March and April Runnells. Sure to include them so that CES Letter Other uncategorized cookies are those that being! Realized that those How the Mormon church Punishes Dissenters i 'll go away with questions. I 'm being charged with here settling important difficulties in the matters involved.... Is still on but wanted to lds excommunication letter double sure ward, so to speak curious as what. Instead of punishing me and hoping i 'll go away with my questions, wo. Be wrong ( D & C 102 ( D & C 42:8093.... Always curious as to what level a court is required, `` this is really up to the.. Last meeting that you will be bringing my trusted interpreter to ensure that i understand 100 of... Eye-Brow raising admissions in these essays phone, `` this is the power that you will be able hear... To put her on formal probation wo n't you just answer them in meeting.