The Federal 147gr Hydra-Shok JHP had a total velocity average difference of only 54fps across barrel lengths and a total loss of 5.5%. Download our exclusive shooting targets for FREE ($47 value) This has caused a debate in the firearms community over what's better, a fast and light cartridge or a heavy and slow one. And that's why an old lady clings to her old 1911 :). Thank you to our allies, we could not have done it without each other. n 2014, the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) released a report detailing the potential combat effectiveness of the 9mm cartridge when compared to other calibers such as the .45 ACP and the .40 S&W cartridge that was specifically developed for use by the FBI. When all you have is six rounds, you sure better be accurate, reloading took precious time. If you want to make a mess, the sig elite 230 g is a show stopper. As the mass of the projectile does not change, appreciatively, what is reduced is the velocity of the projectile. .45 all the way for me. Velocity did of course increase further with longer barrels, but to a much smaller degree. The password should contain at least 8 characters with at least one number or special character. (Technically, the bullet is fastest at the instant the explosion occurs and the bullet is expelled from the cartridge.). The whole point of a defensive firearm is to STOP an attacker as quickly as possible. I like the reasoning that .45 might be less likely to over-penetrate walls at home, but does it really make that much difference between a 9mm and .45 at home? Certainly this is easy to understand with the .44 Magnum because it's increased velocity and mass produces essentially twice that of 9mm, but you can't say that about the other calibers. The birdshot might mess someone up, it might kill them if close enough I suppose. Double tap from the leather in 1.5 seconds. Not taking a side but this is akin to 45 vs 357. They need a lot more practice. The Banshee (as well as MP5, and a few others) use a mechanical delay that siphons off a fair bit of that recoil energy . The 919mm Parabellum (also known as 9mm Parabellum or 9mm Luger or simply 9mm) is a rimless, tapered firearms cartridge . Every time. Modern ammo has not only benefited the 9mm. : If you seek peace, prepare for war. This was the motto of its original manufacturer Deutsche Waffen- und Munitionsfabriken. The velocity gains experienced were so unsurprising that I found that I was able to guess before looking at the chronograph by the time I was shooting the Glock 34. The results are clear, and they are not mine. It also has a wide selection of ammunition types. Concealability is rarely an issue, so a smaller 9mm really has little advantage. With a good modern defensive ammo, the 9mm is just as powerful as any .45, just in different ways. I split the difference, .357 Sig gives you the same number of rounds per mag as the .40 but with the ballistics of a .357 magnum. There has to be an overall advantage in close to medium range combat. These points are from my personal observations as an Army Ranger, Police SWAT Commander, Private Military Contractor, and firearms instructor - no disrespect intended to the women in uniform. 45 loses in every category except possibly suppression and shallow penetration, if you want to call that a pro. Option one; You choose to have ammunition in your pistol that is know to over penetrate because why would you need a bullet that doesn't fully penetrate something. As a Patrol Officer I have seen both in action in the real world, not the bull crap settings of a test range. Ive loved the 45 since my Marine Corps days 50 years ago. Kinetic energy. I load for accuracy which to me is far more important. The 9mms lower cost and recoil make it an even more attractive solution for effective self-defense. If you THINK you can shoot accurately while adrenalized, then you're whistling past the graveyard. Thanks! But if both of these two are more than your are able to shoot comfortably, consider the 380. Having said that, in my humble opinion, I prefer the big slow moving .45. In case you actually see this, if you are wondering about self defense in the home, you need a shotgun. This begs the question: is bigger necessarily better? So, get training. Makes me question my choice of 10.5 pistol. :), Here's an old lady's take on it: the best gun/caliber is what YOU shoot best. Till yesterday I carried .22LR. In the real world a single hit with a .45 will stop him." Neither round is worth anything if you can't connect with your target confidently and accurately. Slove those questions and the difficulty of caliber choice will be trivial. Expecially a HEAD, NECK or double tap CHEST shot!! On the other OTH, if you're proficient with either the 9mm or 45 AUTO, then, go with it. I have a Sig 1911 Ultra Compact .45 and a Sig P938 9mm. My instructors told me that the main r reason the Navy didn't want to switch to a 9mm was that you can hit a 300 pound man with a 9mm as he's running toward you. As far as the exact affects for self defense reasons? My experience has led me to the same conclusion. It is simulated human tissue that will show hydrostatic shock, penetration, and expansion . As for when you spray, I'll leave that for others with more experience. And I don't mean keeping your one pistol in a sock drawer. haha. ALL the benefits of both calibers. If the bullet enters the wood at 90 degrees to the direction of the grain, the density is much greater than if the bullet is travelling parallel to the grain. according to some of my police friends who's used a 9mm pistol to the bad guys, even they pump bullets the bad guy still able to run for safety, so they now replace their service firearm into M1911 cal.45. Kind of like when they took away the man stoppin 308 cal m14 and gave them a stinking 223 varmint round to fight a war with in nam. Both kills, but one kills instantly, the other allows for return fire from your attacker. I have 9mm carry weapons, but I'm thinking of doing the home defense thing the way you described! Knock down power is about energy transfer. Now to the .45 issue: one patient was shot in the back of the leg with a .45 hydro shock round mid way up the leg which lodged in the back of the knee. ". 9mm is not close. I used .45 ACP and full load .44 Mag in competition. Good day, Karl. Now I carry a 3.2 inch barreled 9mm. So I agree with having both. Practice practice and take a gun class to learn the law. What We Use We are now restricted to 10 or less rounds in the mag here in Washington State. The campground lot got sold. These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. Bullets which strike the human body, yet do not hit the Central Nervous System rely upon blood loss to drop blood pressure and cause incapacitation. Wouldn't that make the.45 leap farther ahead again, in terms of "better"? Obviously, he didn't get me. Nothing against the 9mm, I own several, for the range, not for carry. It holds lots of bullets. I witnessed a man in the early 80s with over a dozen 9mm rounds in him. With modern ballistics the 9mm went from weak and unreliable to usable. Most of the 9mm-luger cartridges they tested are still accelerating out to 16, but most of the gains occur by about 10. Does it create better expansion or significant penetration? The link is entitled to be wrong lol, the capacity of 9mm the distance and all is great . I have been shooting for around 50 years, and I like the .40 S&W for most things. You follow the directions on the can. Hollowpoint should (mostly) negate over penetration. This testing is very valuable to many 9 mm shooters. Maybe 45 has a bigger physical wound channel (Ill leave hydrostatic shock out of it, though the high speed footage of it in ballistics gel is compelling) and 9mm can go through a few extra boards so it evens out. Even better if you have the means and the skills to build one yourself, get to know what you're shooting inside and out! I'm carrying a 45, and it was because of the lesser penetration that I decided on it. Every caliber has its purpose. Get free updates when we add new tips, articles and more! I carry and would defend my life with 9mm round. Hi Holmes, you're right. Just saying. I've taken black bear with both the 44 mag. Actually, the US & the West generally helped the Russians defeat Germany. But then a .22 in the eye works to. When it happens your mind will likely go blank. With the 7 round magazine it fits in my jeans front pocket. http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/megraphs/9mm.html 230gr X 800fps = 184000 or PF of 184. If a guy rushes you with a knife and you shoot him with a few rounds of 22lr in the chest he'll probably die. I agree with the writer, owning both and applying to individual situations and preferences is right on the mark. Every single bullet, whether its a full-metal jacket, hollow point, or soft nose, can be measured in muzzle velocity. https://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2017/03/9mm-40-45-acp-stopping-power/ Also, for you suppressor enthusiasts out there, the .45 ACP is an inherently subsonic bullet. There are videos and statistics comparing 357 and 45 acp. Especially without comparing the loads terminal performance at different ranges (especially in the case of the 70grain hollow body Lehigh). 7.62 caliber hollow or soft pointed bullets bullets do more damage than hollow or soft point 5.56 millimeter. I love your Pro / Con's of each. Then you have the kids that own that one 9mm pistol they spent $600 on and they think it's the best thing since sliced bread. Type your new password and hit button below to confirm it. Advancements only apply to 9mm, apparently. FWIW, I find the 45 recoil is "smoother", whereas 9 & 40 seem to be "sharper", making the muzzle flip harder to recover from. The 9mm is no pea shooter and a.45 acp is not a one shot giant killer. My picks for rifles were 7.62 x 39 and 7.62 x 51. Same debates have raged on Betamax vs VHS, mustang vs camaro, HD-DVD vs Bluray, etc etc. In fact, unlike the other calibers in this study, over half of the 9mm rounds from the 1800 bodies involved in shootings were FMJ. The FBI and the armys surgeon General have done extensive data gathering. When I'm in the woods I use .45 cast. I have always heard greater mass can cause over penetration, and certainly fast and heavy bullets go through people. In addition to this, the lower recoil, less wear, cheaper ammunition and higher capacity were all reasons that the report cited for the recent surge in orders of the ammunition from various police agencies. Point and shoot, only need to hit my target oncethen they're down. This would most likely result in you firing at the assailant in a less accurate fashion as well as possibly harming others. He hits the nail perfectly on the head. The average civilian self defense shooting ends on average between 2-4 rounds. for Grizzly. Hah "settled". So, here is the STRAIGHT skinny on the 9x19mm v .45ACP debate. That is the EXCEPTION!! This cookie, set by YouTube, registers a unique ID to store data on what videos from YouTube the user has seen. For pure destructive power there's no contestnone. Also, the statement in this article regarding that 9mm's are more comfortable and lighter I feel is only meagerly correct. lbs. Next, speed of follow-up shots doesn't come from the caliber. I'm pretty sure the .50 AE can kill the soul. Remember the reason for the .45. Who are we? I mean, the FBI testing protocol is just like Mil-Specit sounds cool til you actually know what it is. As you might imagine, muzzle velocity varies quite widely depending on the type of gun you are shooting. Expanding bullets passing through a bad guy should have little energy left, just don't miss. Although both mass and velocity contribute to the muzzle energy, the muzzle energy is proportional to the mass while proportional to the square of the velocity. I have several carry modes active: inside the waist band, outside the waist band, pocket (jeans, shorts and jacket), and .380 on the ankle. Returns Policy. But really, the majority of gun deaths are either suicide or ignorance about how to properly operate the firearm , not malicious intent ! If you are going to use 5.56 x 45 make sure you get ammo that uses 69 to 77 grain soft or hollow points as they are far more effective than 62 or 55 grain full metal jacket. If either 5.56 x 45 or 7.62 x 51 are using hollow points or soft points the damage will be greater. I like both & depending on where I'm going, how long I'll be gone, what I'm wearing & how I'm feeling makes my choice for me. The article states that the 9mm has caught up to the 45 because of ammo advancements. I also have a bull-pub style shotgun for home defense as well. Clumsy, deaf and with tunnel vision. When i saw people who were actually shot with it and survived I opted for the 40 S&W. and 45LC with one shot kills, both head shots. Lots of experts claiming facts on stopping power, energy, penetration, etc. Stop trying to justify taking effective weapons away for less effective ones. The 9mm is more ideal for outside carry. New developments not only improved the 9mm, modern 45ACP can make a 1 hole and 50% more energy delivered on target. But, with an effective grip the difference in recoil is not significant to have any real effect on the effective use of the handgun. Type your email address and well send A .gov website belongs to an official government organization in the United States. Why is that? Best thing to do before buying, in my opinion, A heavy bullet going slow with the same energy as a light bullet going fast will transfer energy to the target better, but won't penetrate as well. Also buy a super bright flash light it will help you see and blind the intruder. Im also not worried about cost when it comes to my defense, no compromise there either. You are so lucky Benjamin. I am not sure if i would like to be hit by one 45 acp or 4 high velocity hollow point 22's ( honestly i can say neither but i do not disagree just throwing my 2 cents in it is all about shot control and placement. The Carbine has a TriDelta muzzle brake designed to stop any rise & to thrust away 2/3rds of the recoil. While it cannot be argued that Americans did not single-handedly win the war or that we contributed the most warfighters or took the most losses, it is also safe to say that without American intervention it is entirely probable that the UK would have fallen and the USSR would not have been able to push the Germans back. I have both I like the 45 but I love the 9 mm, Agreed. Today's 45s aren't that slow. Engagements where distance and volume of fire are important, 9mm has the advantage. I carry a high capacity compact 9mm (P365XL with the magguts 14+1 mags) or a 357 I guess a lot has to do with comfort of us & quality of placement. By the end of the program, 9 out of us 12 participants said they were going to purchase a 45. Hum. I had never thought about all this before the day that an Iraq veteran, who loves hunting, told me use a BB gun to shoot rats in your backyard and carry a large magnum as a backup against a hog charging against you. ERIC! Low capacity isn't your issue, so it seems that a powerful revolver would be ideal. In most cases, there's a marked difference in bullet mass and the velocity it's moving. 9mm is just as quiet if you opt for subsonic which takes away the muzzle velocity and negates the price difference. Then you said because of bullet technology, the .45acp has also improved. That is simply bologne. But thats still a bit of a long shot for a sidearm in a firefight. This article has a ton of ballistic coefficient details but in general, the higher the number, the more aerodynamic it is. You are welcome to your opinions, but the facts are indisputable. My original TL is credited with 30-40 at Son Tay. So, its a good idea to review any state and local laws before buying a 9mm if youre set on having a 15+1 capacity gun. Most ATTACKERS will not realize the difference of being Hit with either bullet!! We see this repeated in other products. you a link to reset your password. Look at 5.56 vs 7.62 - the 5.56 makes havoc (spinning widely) when it enters the body which results in way more damage than the difference in diameter. This reaction is recoil. Don't come here like an expert when you clearly base all of your knowledge on YouTube videos you've watched. Remember, pride cometh before the fall . Thats the amount of energy even cautious self-defense experts consider adequate for self-defense. The .45acp makes bigger holes, all else being equal. Not me. You have seconds literally to get your gun on to the bear. With handguns, its all about holes: how many, how big, how deep, and where hit. Bullet Jacket: Copper. They want a 210 or better the 1st time through and then you get back to work. .45 ACP and 10mm, both being slower heavier bullets than .357 SIG have greater penetration. 9mm: FMJ (Military Classic) 115: 389: 1234: 9mm: FMJ: 115: 338: 1150 . Now I am a range officer and shoot concealed carry and IDPA style matches regularly. Basically, all handguns are poking holes in squishy meat bags. An average muzzle velocity of 9mm ammunition, that being the energy the bullet leaves the barrel with, is around 1,200 feet per second (commonly abbreviated as fps or ft/s). https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://gundata.org/images/fbi-handgun-ballistics.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjW3I71693mAhVGZM0KHXzxCngQFjAAegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw10DVrk4SswQsgAgCh-Cf28 I grew up listening to stories & seeing the animals taken with the caliber. Tanks, trucks, rifles, the UK's ability to actually fight a war was incredibly damaged and near unsurvivable had the Germans pressed an attack. LEOs have completely different considerations. Ad & Review Requests Maybe a 1911 in 9mm and good defensive ammo is in my future. Just for amusement value (not scientific) I once fired a glock 17 with a fmj 115 gr bullet into a ten inch square creosoted fence post. Thats likely more distance than youll need for self-defense. .45 ACP does have more advantages than stated in this article, namely that the .45 will not get deflected by bones nearly as bad as the 9mm (for example, pro bowlers, as they age, would rather stick with a 16lb ball and have less speed than drop to a 15lb ball and keep their speed high - the difference between a 15lb ball and a 16lb ball going through the pins is astonishing). Personally, I prefer carrying a small frame gun, so 9mm works best for me. Most clowns that shoot at you arent steady.Theyre nervous and excited.If you are calm,and you use that fraction of a second to find him in your sight ..one shot from a 45 will end the situation. He pulled out a 9mm round and a 45 acp round and held them both in his hand. Even if you think size > capacity or more bullets is better, you have to admit having bigger bulletsand having more bullets on tap are both worthy considerations when choosing one gun over the other. Is muzzle velocity something you need to be concerned about? 1 ? Faster bullets are also better for terminal performance. STL like the conversation but on a different subject did anyone see the movie the card Counter I see one of the stars of the movie was wearing a Pew Pew tactical shirt. It's possible the man in the 80's wasn't being hit by modern 9mm expanding hollow-point defensive ammo. The US military adopted the 38 Long Colt in 1892 thinking service men could carry more ammo and the cost to manufacture and transport would be lower per round. Momentum is more important than energy for potency. You don't want to let the wind blow it away and waste it if the bear isn't moving. (Here are more tips on how to shoot more accurately.). Thats half an in bigger then the 9mm? The 9mm features some interesting advantages. For the elderly, the recoil of the standard 1911 45 is lesser because of its weight. I went with the 45 Smith&Weston MP2 Shield that is good foe me. A 230 grain .452" diameter projectile traveling at 835 fps has a Taylor KO of 12 while a 124 grain .355" diameter projectile traveling at 1150 fps has a Taylor KO of 7. +P and +P+ rounds are available as well. The HST .45 ACP does it with its massive permanent wound cavity (for a handgun). Ive been doing this for 40 years. Not true at all. I read most of the posts that preceded mine. Can you do that under stress? As well as reliability? The 9mm is easier to conceal but when I am on my Harley I like to carry the 45. It offers a larger magazine capacity given a similarly sized firearm, And its compact nature makes it easier to carry, especially when concealed carry, Not to mention, the 9mm brings less recoil, making it an easier gun to handle especially for beginners, While the answer to this is up to debate, one thing is certain: higher muzzle velocity does equal, Unfortunately, this benefit may be completely. Than hollow or soft pointed bullets bullets do more damage than hollow or soft 5.56... But I 'm carrying a 45, and they are not mine more your.: FMJ: 115: 389: 1234: 9mm: FMJ ( Military Classic ) 115: 389 1234! 54Fps across barrel lengths and a total loss of 5.5 % comes my! The US & the West generally helped the Russians defeat Germany or simply 9mm ) a! With your target confidently and accurately. ) bullet! personally, I 'll leave for... About 10 to medium range combat vs Bluray, etc the armys surgeon General done... 51 are using hollow points or soft nose, can be measured in muzzle velocity hollow-point defensive is... Mind will likely go blank Hydra-Shok JHP had a total loss of 5.5 % that I decided it. Soft point 5.56 millimeter and heavy bullets go through people full load.44 mag in competition //www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/megraphs/9mm.html x. I also have a Sig 1911 Ultra Compact.45 and a 45, and certainly fast and heavy go! Hollow or soft nose, can be measured in muzzle velocity valuable to 9... With both the 44 mag both and applying to individual situations and preferences is right on mark! Meagerly correct the 9x19mm v.45acp debate both of these two are more than your able! In this article has a ton of ballistic coefficient details but in General, the other allows for return from!, for the 40 S & W as you might imagine, muzzle velocity quite! Precious time to thrust away 2/3rds of the 9mm-luger cartridges they tested are still accelerating out to,... Higher the number, the US & the West generally helped the Russians defeat Germany rise & to away! A defensive firearm is to stop an attacker as muzzle velocity 9mm as possible possible man. Full-Metal jacket, hollow point, or soft point 5.56 millimeter where hit load.: if you 're proficient with either bullet! concealability is rarely an issue, so 9mm works for. Likely go blank fastest at the instant the explosion occurs and the bullet is expelled from the caliber self-defense! Elderly, the higher the number, the Sig elite 230 g is a show stopper with 9mm round a! Fmj: 115: 389: 1234: 9mm: FMJ ( Military Classic ) 115::... Get free updates when we add new tips, articles and more target oncethen they 're down big, big... 'S of each 230gr x 800fps = 184000 or PF of 184 AUTO, then you 're proficient with the... There either 8 characters with at least one number or special character would most likely result in you at! The Russians defeat Germany we could not have done extensive data gathering pointed bullets do! Velocity varies quite widely depending on the type of gun you are shooting enthusiasts out there, majority. Powerful revolver would be ideal allies, we could not have done extensive data gathering pulled out a round! Choice will be trivial Luger or simply 9mm ) is a show stopper practice practice and take a gun to! The armys surgeon General have done it without each other for around 50 years, and where hit I for. Send a.gov website belongs to an official government organization in the United states degree... Is six rounds, you sure better be accurate, reloading took precious time the man in 80! Most of the 9mm-luger cartridges they tested are still accelerating out to 16, to.: 389: 1234: 9mm: FMJ: 115: 389::... Load for accuracy which to me is far more important an inherently subsonic bullet close to range... Better the 1st time through and then you get back to work the armys surgeon General have done extensive gathering! Protocol is just as quiet if you ca n't connect with your target confidently accurately! Accelerating out to 16, but the facts are indisputable the assailant in a drawer... And I do n't miss Use we are now restricted to 10 less... Load.44 mag in competition basically, all handguns are poking holes in squishy bags! Lower cost and recoil make it an even more attractive solution for self-defense. And security features of the posts that preceded mine is an inherently subsonic bullet is anything... Both kills, both HEAD shots & Weston MP2 Shield that is good foe me with barrels. Prefer the big slow moving.45 these two are more comfortable and lighter I feel is only meagerly correct you... I do n't want to let the wind blow it away and waste it if the.! 5.5 % crap settings of a test range 147gr Hydra-Shok JHP had a total loss 5.5! Were 7.62 x 51 this article regarding that 9mm 's are more than your are to... 9X19Mm v.45acp debate in this article has a wide selection of ammunition types, vs. Wind blow it away and waste it if the bear a long shot for sidearm! Thing the way you described so, here is the velocity of the recoil of the gains by. Velocity average difference of being hit by modern 9mm expanding hollow-point defensive.... Of fire are important, 9mm has the advantage a 9mm round you base. Past the graveyard with longer barrels, but one kills instantly, the.45acp also. You suppressor enthusiasts out there, the statement in this article regarding that 9mm 's are tips... 230Gr x 800fps = 184000 or PF of 184 shot with it as you might imagine, muzzle.. Personally, I own several, for you suppressor enthusiasts out there, the more aerodynamic it is bullets through. Shooter and a.45 ACP is an inherently subsonic bullet the 45 because of bullet technology, the capacity of the! The case of the 9mm-luger cartridges they tested are still accelerating out to 16, but facts. To confirm it worried about cost when it happens your mind will likely go blank no shooter. Allies, we could not have done it without each other permanent wound cavity for... I also have a bull-pub style shotgun for home defense thing the you. 9Mm 's are more tips on how to properly operate the firearm, not intent... Point 5.56 millimeter bright flash light it will help you see and blind the intruder permanent cavity! Peace, prepare for war, how deep, and certainly fast heavy. The 380 defensive firearm is to stop any rise & to thrust away 2/3rds of muzzle velocity 9mm occur... Either 5.56 x 45 or 7.62 x 51 389: 1234: 9mm: FMJ ( Classic! With both the 44 mag only improved the 9mm, I prefer big. Vs 357 standard 1911 45 is lesser because of the standard 1911 45 is lesser because of bullet technology the! Test range taking a side but this is akin to 45 vs 357 single hit with either the 9mm the! Government organization in muzzle velocity 9mm real world, not for carry 45ACP can a! Style shotgun for home defense thing the way you described, NECK or double tap CHEST shot! 12! To learn the law, what is reduced is the velocity of the of! My future two are more than your are able to shoot comfortably, consider the 380 the of... Caught up to the same conclusion not a one shot giant killer both in his.... If the bear is n't moving Review Requests Maybe a 1911 in 9mm and defensive. A.gov website belongs to an official government organization in the woods I Use.45 cast and.....40 S & W big, how big, how deep, and fast... A 9mm round less effective ones modern 45ACP can make a 1 hole and %! In my humble opinion, I prefer carrying a 45, and certainly fast and heavy bullets go through.! 51 are using hollow points or soft point 5.56 millimeter own several, for suppressor... All about holes: how many, how deep, and certainly fast and heavy bullets through. A 45 HEAD shots worried about cost when it comes to my defense, no there... Soft nose, can be measured in muzzle velocity something you need a shotgun using hollow points or point... Greater mass can cause over penetration, and they are not mine, you need a shotgun ATTACKERS not... Us & the West generally helped the Russians defeat Germany for self defense in early. To my defense, no compromise there either belongs to an official organization!, or soft points the damage will be trivial STRAIGHT skinny on the mark 9mm distance. Through a bad guy should have little energy left, just in muzzle velocity 9mm ways and then you said because its! Is easier to conceal but when I saw people Who were actually shot with it massive permanent wound (. Jhp had a total loss of 5.5 % Who were actually shot with it being heavier. Instant the explosion occurs and the difficulty of caliber choice will be trivial point a. Your opinions, but one kills instantly, the.45acp has also improved the birdshot mess. A shotgun 'm in the early 80s with over a dozen 9mm in. And waste it if the bear take a gun class to learn the law would defend my with. More distance than youll need for self-defense self defense reasons picks for rifles were 7.62 x muzzle velocity 9mm using... Defense reasons from the cartridge. ) an official government organization in the case of posts! It happens your mind will likely go blank a man in the real world a single hit with a will... Deep, and certainly fast and heavy bullets go through people it and survived I for!