I believe the US was hoping to replicate commercial success of the F-16 back in the 90s to offset the unit cost. India Dumps Russian IL-76A-50EI AEW&C And Opt-in European Options The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), a state-run defence company, will convert six unspecified aircraft operated by Air India (AI, Mumbai Int’l) into airbo… The antenna reportedly provides coverage out to 450km, with a detection range of 350km even inchallenging conditions. The value in dollars amounts to around $153 million. Unlike bullets, bombs or missiles, electronic attack (EA) can be considered a non-lethal way of attacking our adversary, along with cyber attack capability. F 16s as it is used as aggressors (painted in Russia camouflage) for training purposes. LM states that it is stealthy but we don’t know if it is true or not and further more countries like Russia and China are constantly upgrading and creating new anti stealth radars to counter these so called stealthy aircrafts. That wasn’t the case as LM found out the difficulty in designing an aircraft that could meet the wildly different requirements of the USAF, USN and USMC.”. By 2030, we will have quite a number of 5th gen fighters in our region. “Maybe but if we look at past programmes that were just as ambitious; they also suffered from their share of technical issues, delays and overruns. The same applies to almost any asset with significant information gathering capability, whether a frigate, UAV, MPA or AEW. Saab will carry out the work in Gothenburg, and other places in Sweden. The F-35 and others like it are the way of the future. Saab 2000 Erieye AEW&C. 3 Saab 2000 erieye in 2nd batch 2017. costs USD153 million. Learn more about us and how we support our customers. The first customer for the Saab 2000 AEW&C, the Pakistan Fiza’ya (the Pakistan Air Force), placed the order with Saab, based in Stockholm, in June 2006 for Skr6.9bn ($933m). http://www.defensenews.com/air/2018/09/06/northrop-grumman-secures-164m-contract-to-modify-hawkeye-aircraft-for-japan/, ” …the total procurement cost for Japan for the four E-2Ds to $633 million, not inclusive of engineering and other related costs. The United Arab Emirates is also a customer of Saab products. How on earth did you reach this conclusion? Orders and deliveries of Saab 2000 Erieye AEW&C. – larger pool of pilots with similar certification. It would have been less of headache if they went for different designs but with commonality with one other (engines, avionics, etc). Reply UAE has a smaller sea area than malaysia to look for, which would be ideal for them to have both AWACS and MPA capability in one platform. USA – F 35 accompanied by the F 22, F 18 and/or F 16. Why I have budgeted usd600 million for 3 AWACS. I believe we can get 2 sqn worth of LCA and 1 LIFT sqn. It is unclear when operations began with the aircraft, as neither Saab nor the Saudis will discuss the acquisition of these aircraft. If you like this post, buy me an espresso. The Pakistani Saab-2000 AEW&C uses of new generation radar transmit/receive modules which generate around 60% extra output. Please, enable JavaScript in your browser to comment! As you’re aware, we don’t buy high tech planes very often and whatever we buy we use for a very long time, so when we do spend money we’d have to make sure we buy something with high future-proofing. There are lots of parallels. First of all “stealth” (LO is a more accurate term) is not a panacea; doesn’t make a figure totally undetectable. You’ve made several assumptions or misconceptions about LO aircraft that are simple untrue….. “your last paragraph that in the end you suggest Malaysia doesn’t need the F 35”. Imo EA is a capability we need to have, in all branches of our military. Stealth is not absolute. Please re-read carefully the defence news article. http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/japan-e-2d-advanced-hawkeye-airborne-early-warning-and-control-aircraft. Story Drug surveillance in the jungle. Swedish defence company Saab has produced the airborne early warning & control system ERIEYE for total control of the battlefield, & airspace. TWO SAAB 2000 Erieye airborne early warning and control aircraft have quietly entered service with the Royal Saudi Air Force (RSAF) recently. The damaged aircraft were subsequently repaired and put back into service. What do you want for our future MRCA around 2030-2035? Thailand is hoping to upgrade the 340 AEW with new capabilities and control function in the near future. And did you know it was USMC that lobbied for the inception of the F 35 in the beginning? “Did you know that stealth coating is also expensive?””. Please would like to hear your thoughts on this. “So tell me Azlan, can Malaysia afford to buy the F 35””. A true force multiplier that will facilitate the optimisation of your available resources Stories. Gripen C-series. How many AEWC aircraft is RMAF planning on getting? Never mind the RSAF; the RTAF with its Gripen/Eriye combo is way ahead of us. The magazine claims IAF had to play catch up against PAF whose Saab AEWC had greater situational awareness against IAF. So tell me Azlan, can Malaysia afford to buy the F 35 when we don’t even have the facility and infrastructure and even the experience to own and fly the F 16? ”. So a country’s ability to operate the F-35 is not decided only by whether it can afford it or handle the technical complexity, but mainly whether the services can make the organisational changes to fully utilise its capabilities. Saab 2000 Erieye AEW&C aircraft is in operational use in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. Sorry for the comment, just want your article to be more accurate. This was accepted as the JSF was not intended to be the top end air superiority fighter and development problems with STOVL had not yet been encountered. Taiwan for decades operated on the basis that although it has a numerical inferiority with China; it had a technological superiority; this is no longer the case. Anything and Everything on Malaysian Defence. “Both Singapore and Taiwan understandably wants the F 35 B because of its flexibility to be deployed anywhere””. Obviously we can’t afford to buy the F-35 (nobody even said we can or we should), and obviously we have for many years operated several more expensive fighter types than the F-16. Regardless, take a look at the platforms themselves: Saab delivered the first GlobalEye Swing Role Surveillance System aircraft to the United Arab Emirates on 29 April 2020. Azlan – That’s a given, same like our own cars but please do not divert from us talking about the F 35 for Malaysia. @Azlan – What makes you think stealth is the way in the future? Why on earth would you want the F 35 for RMAF? the saab 2000 can only be had secondhand, which is very hard to find now due to only a total of 63 built. Maya scene rendered with Arnold renderer. F-111 was such case where it worked for the USAF but have to be reworked into the F-14 for the USN, “For me it’s “hardly” surprising that the F-35 has been hit by various issues”. Where are the USN and USMC F-16s? Saab 2000 Erieye AEW&C is a complete AEW&C system with multi-role and multi-mission capabilities for both military and civil needs. Why is stealth important? The major initial customer was Crossair, a regional airline which had Swissair as a 56% shareholder. Air warfare is no longer about which platform has the radar with the longest range or the one which has the best performing ordnance; it’s about who has the better SA: something which hasn’t changed from the days of the Red Baron. As per Saab press release. There are lots of parallels. Later reports identified that customer as Saudi Arabia. It is based on the Saab 2000 aircraft equipped with Saab's airborne radar Erieye and a range of other sensors. I don’t think I erred, the DSCS announcement as usual put the whole total package, and the final contract price usually much lower than the announcement. The costs The USN pursued the NATF and A/F-X prrogrammes that were stopped following the end of the Cold War. Typhoon is 35 years old. It’s all about who has the superior SA and who can better apply it to maximum advantage. Countries with small STOVL carriers or LHDs can acquire supercarrier-like capability and can train cross-deck with the USN. The Defence News story had superseded the DSCA announcement. Please enable Javascript in your browser for the best experience. “Please note that even tho the USN has the F 35 C then why the heck are they still ordering Super Hornets Block 3 for the Navy and USAF operates the F 35 A but they’re still using both F 16s and the F 15 Es and have ordered the F 15 X. The cockpit has Swedlow panel windshield which is electrically heated. It’s the fighter’s LO features together with various other factors that delivers the results. Singapore is getting the F 35. Higher operating ceiling of 9,150 ma and increased radar output allows Pakistani Erieye AEW&C to detect both air and maritime targets much longer ranges then the first and second generation Erieye systems. A few things have changed since the time the JSF concept was defined. It is interesting to note that that Saab had also marketed the Saab 2000 AEWC to Malaysia, Philippines and Indonesia previously. Does that answer your question? We can and should buy cheaply available planes to tide us for the meantime but our future big ticket buy should be something that wouldn’t be obsoleting in the next couple decades, the reason why I had disagreed getting either 4.5gens Rafale or Typhoon or Super Hornet. On The Way …. Ready for Unity and Unreal Engine 4 game engines. Actually I was a bit surprised that the Americans went for one size fits all combat aircraft concept, knowing that mission requirements, doctrine and operations of each service are way different from one another. Reply 3) LCA/LIFT. Azlan – You went all the way to rebutt what I had said only to conclude in your last paragraph that in the end you suggest Malaysia doesn’t need the F 35. In the first place, there was no “F-35 concept.” There was only the JSF concept which defined all the requirements, including the STOVL requirement, long before the competition was opened to Boeing and LM. – we can cannibalise the vip aircraft if needed to enable AWAC and EW aircraft operational. Right now data transfer can be done with existing SDR radios (using software systems like the R and S SECOS). 1 total lost and 2 repaired back to service. The order value is 1.553 billion SEK. Still years before we need this kind of platform but it a smart thing to start evaluating from now.Maybe when we need them later, hopefully we can get 1 or 2 globaleye outright with erieye er radar suite at a lower price of course (if it ever happen lol).Can swing role and future proof too.AWACS and MPA in one platform is kinda tempting right? And any updates whether it’s getting through? There are 60 Saab 2000 aircraft operating throughout the world in France, … The United Arab Emirates has ordered three GlobalEye aircraft, with the initial contract signed in late 2015. The E-2D it must be noted is a new airframe compared to the Saab 2000 which is only available from used airframes. It’s not the F-35’s “stealthy” features that makes it different but various factors; namely the fact that incorporates stuff not available on legacy platforms and the fact that it’s intended to be operated as part of a integrated network also comprising new assets. The order value is 1.553 billion SEK ($157.7 million). For me it’s surprising that the F-35 has been hit by various issues. Saab 2000 Price and Orders The price of the Saab 2000 aircraft is around US $ 15 million. As a result the Navy pursued a JSF + F/A-18E force structure. Thailand is the sole user of the Saab Erieye system though they chose the Saab 340 airframe instead. Poland also recently signed agreement to get F 35. If you want to form conclusions as to comments made by others; at least form the right ones. My bad i mean before we are able to buy this platform cuz lets be real here, rmaf must prioritize other assets procument like LCAs, Uav, Ground Radar and nuri replacement programme first before they can turn their attention into aewcs platform..This priority procurement will at the very least take 2 RMK = 10 years to finish..But i cant deny that RMAF kinda in need of this awacs equipment.. @Joe – Noted on your POV regarding the F 35 but I will stay on the fence regarding the plane that can’t do anything right. ” Northrop Grumman has been awarded a $164 million firm-fixed-price MODIFICATION TO AN EXISTING CONTRACT for a new-build E-2D Advanced Hawkeye aircraft ”, ” …the total procurement cost for Japan for the four E-2Ds to $633 million, not inclusive of engineering and other related costs. Saab will carry out the work in Gothenburg, Järfälla, Linköping, Luleå and Arboga, Sweden. usd 40 million for 2x used vip global 6000s. Saab’s offering to Finland includes advanced Electronic Warfare systems, comprising of a newly developed Electronic Attack Jammer Pod and a decoy missile system. There are 60 Saab 2000 aircraft operating throughout the world in France, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Lithuania, Marshall Islands, Sweden, Switzerland and the United States. To be delivered from 2020-2023. I believe the US was hoping to replicate commercial success of the F-16 back in the 90s to offset the unit cost. By your logic, Russia, China, Korea and Turkey would not be developing stealth aircraft of their own. usd 150 million for the havasoj Related products. The JSF concept itself was quite ambitious; a common airframe for all services, stealthy, cheap enough to be procured in large numbers (to replace the F-16s) by the US and its allies. When radar cannot detect the F-35, it is almost like you are blind, you dont know where your opponent is. ”. I believe this has been thought of in our NCO plans. Deliveries will be made between 2020 and 2023. “All other countries that have purchased or are getting the F 35 are users of the F 16 (also made by LM”, For the very obvious reason that all are either U.S. treaty allies or are aligned to the U.S. and are already operating U.S. aircraft. As Azlan said, the F-35’s value is not in its qualities as an individual aircraft, but when used in its place in a system. It’s not in the RMAF’s present wish list and the requirement hasn’t even been registered or approved. Saab has signed a contract and received an order for the Airborne Early Warning and Control solution Saab 2000 Erieye AEW&C. Of course a user without any experience on a particular aircraft will likely incur higher costs compared to an experienced user like Japan. And its even carrier-rated. The engineering costs will be paid by US Navy. As RMAF is also interested in AEWC aicraft as well it is interesting to note that cost of the single Saab 2000 AEWC is (USD$160 million) somewhat comparable to the cost of a single Hawkeye based on the price of the four Northrop Grumman E-2D Advanced Hawkeye, around about USD$164 million each as ordered by Japan. – same pool of ground technicians Did you know that stealth coating is also expensive? USD 633 million is the contract price up to the date of the article, still not including a lot of other costs, like engineering and other related costs. The company recently delivered its Global Eye early warning system to the UAE. ““F 35 not only is prohibitively expensive to procure but it is also expensive to maintain“”. For me it’s surprising that the F-35 has been hit by various issues. Here's a selection. Propaganda War Between Azerbaijan, Armenia. or is this approach is not proven yet or not really feasible for us? SHAH ALAM: New contract for Saab 2000 AEWC. We can upgrade our fighters all want and even at some point in the future get MRCAs but the missing element will remain a AEW platform. Cette section est vide, insuffisamment détaillée ou incomplète. Ukraine bought 12 TB2 with 3 ground control stations for usd69 million. Anyway, the Erieye is already combat proven with Pakistan air force, a fellow service that we can learn from in operating the Erieye. As a result the wings were swept less sharply than for a higher speed design. We cannot expect as a new AWACS operator we can spend only that much for the capability. Aircraft production had stopped in 1999. The USMC wanted STOVL capability to assure the future of the fast jet component of its air wings. All press releases. Saab 2000 AEW&C : Variante AWACS équipée d'un Radar à antenne active Erieye et de systèmes de conduite de mission associés. Furthermore Australia was granted the EA Growler by the US Congress which further shows the favoritism shown. Saab 2000 Erieye AEW&C is a complete AEW&C system with multi-role and multi-mission capabilities for both military and civil needs. Or when you claim some countries believe stealth can be easily defeated but are busily developing their own stealth aircraft. Stealthy aircrafts are needed for countries that wants to attack/invade other countries such as USA and its Western coalitions for oil and its mineral sources. US$110-135 million (export price) The Saab 2000 AEW&Cairborne early warning and control aircraft is a variant of the Saab 2000 regional transport turboprop aircraft equipped with the spine-mounted Saab Systems Erieye PS-890 side-looking reconnaissance radar. For my opinion, Saab erieye system is suitable for military and civil securities purpose but E-2 Hawkeye is pure military mission and battle proven, up to Mindef to decides in term of cost, manpower and expertise. Saab 2000 Erieye AEW&C is a complete AEW&C system with multi-role and multi-mission capabilities for both military and civil needs. This website requires Javascript to be enabled. – same spareparts for common items like tires, brakes, engines etc. Singapore wants it because it’s policy is to maintain a technological edge over its neighbours and going for the F-35 is the obvious step as part of its plans to take the RSAF to a new level by replacing what it currently has with something superior. ”. SAAB has provided plenty of EW systems for Malaysia, including our EW threat library system and training. ASM – “think the F-35 is too expensive for us””. But stealth is only one quality. ”, “Stealthy aircrafts are needed for countries that wants to attack/invade other countries such as USA and its Western coalitions for oil and its mineral sources.”. AE 2100A: Saab 2000 (commercial) AE 2100 D2/D2A: C-27J Spartan AE 2100D3: C-130J Hercules; LM-100J AE 2100J: ShinMaywa US-2 AE 2100P: Saab 2000 ERIEYE AEW&C Price/Unit Cost: AE 2100D3: $3.10 million First Run: Unknown First Flight: Unknown 1x global 6000 aselsan HavaSOJ airbone jammer system 1) additional 6x EC225LP used commercial to complement the EC725 What’s Behind Turkey’s silence on S-400 Air Defence System Test? The previous user of the Saab 2000 AEWC are the Pakistani Air Force and the Royal Saudi Air Force, so it is likely that one of them is also the customer for the new order. Rafale is 34 years old. This was accepted because JSF was originally intended for CAS and interdiction- for which STOVL was useful for dispersed operations. If designed for today’s anticipated Pacific battlefields, the aircraft would probably have a longer range and higher speed, two engines and greater internal stores carriage. Paypal Payment, http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/RMAF_Global_Express_MRD.jpg, http://newsassets.cirium.com/assets/getasset.aspx?itemid=79438. http://defence-blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/DkJdPKlX0AEe6qI.jpg, http://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1s96PvWkAApv4u.jpg. Unless our military is seamlessly integrated with the us military like Japan, It would probably be much more easier if we go for non-us AWACS system. So while the F-35 has had a long and expensive development, it would not be accurate to attribute the additional cost to these problems. Just heard from the Janes defence but il bet It would send to pakistan or South America IMO. If we want the capability before 2030, we need to plan for it now. “F 35 not only is prohibitively expensive to procure but it is also expensive to maintain especially regarding the stealth coating”. By which time the aircraft have evaded or killed you. In the Saab 2000, passenger comfort is comparable to larger jets due to the active noise reduction system installed in the cabin, the generous seat pitch and the fact that the Saab 2000 is capable of operating up to 31.000 ft. using the smoother upper airways other turboprops cannot reach. They’re also F 16 user. Super Hornet is 25 years old. The E-2D it must be noted is a new airframe compared to the Saab 2000 which is … So that means something doesn’t add up with the F 35. @Melayu Ketinggalan It did not identify the customer for the contract which is worth some US$160 million or around RM697 million. What I pointed is just a plausible scenario which makes the advantages of Hawkeye option more obvious. Of course it is but we have no intent on buying it. “can Malaysia afford to buy the F 35 when we don’t even have the facility and infrastructure and even the experience to own and fly the F 16?”. I stand corrected. The Erieye family of Airborne Early Warning & Control aircraft offer of small size, lower purchase price, dual air/sea scan capabilities, and comparatively cheap operating costs are making it one of the world’s most popular AEW systems. 2) MALE UAV, now i am inclined to look at the bayraktar TB2. Netherlands, Belgium, Norway and Denmark are replacing their F 16s with the F 35s. The solution gives the user detailed situational awareness and can be used for tasks including border surveillance and search-and-rescue operations. Melayu Ketinggalan – “Clearly you have not been following all the mishaps that LM are covering up in regards to the F35 debacle.””. Taiwan needs it because it desires the ability to maintain some level of superiority over China. New missile capabilities against bases and ships have prompted a move towards disaggregation and distributed operations. Malaysia does not need stealthy jet fighters as we want to only defend our air space from foreign threats. “It’s not in the RMAF’s present wish list and the requirement hasn’t even been registered or approved.”. The large STOVL engine enlarged the frontal cross section of the aircraft and hence limited its top speed., and limited the aircraft to having one engine. Saab 2000 Erieye AEW&C provides Airborne Early Warning & Control and the rapid performance required to make the right decisions in time. If you say no to F-35, what is your substitute for that? Multirole and affordable jet fighters like the F 16 (as an example) should be enough to deter and defend. The RNAF is trying its best to make the transition from a platform to a network centric air arm but as always funding is the core issue. 2x global 6000 vip to replace existing global express and falcon 900. BTW, did Northrop Grumman ever offer the Advance Hawkeye to malaysia ? What i propose is for malaysia to get an erieye system, but instead of housing it in the saab 2000 airframe, we will use the same global 6000 airframe as the globaleye. Sur les autres projets Wikimedia: Saab JAS 39 Gripen , sur Wikimedia Commons Articles connexes Modifier Liste des avions militaires de 1970 à 2000 D'autres avions multirôle: Rafale , Typhoon , F-35 , F/A-18E et Su-35 Liens externes Modifier (en) « Gripen international » , Saab . all delivered by 2020. It is like your eyes. As you said japan is already an existing Hawkeye operator, and most of its current support systems for E-2C can be reused for the E-2D. ASM “The JSF concept itself was quite ambitious; a common airframe for all services, stealthy, cheap enough to be procured in large numbers (to replace the F-16s) by the US and its allies. Due to circumstances concerning the product and customer, further information about the customer will not be announced, a Saab release said. We can actually use EA in military operations other than war (MOOTW), like in standoffs. A used global 6000 costs about usd20 million now, probably around usd15 million in 2025. in my previous write here, i planned for. Too bad. To be expected given the scope, complexity and the various new technologies involved.”, Agreed. Because you depend so much on radar. that’s the fly away price of the aircraft. Name me a single fighter/bomber programme (F-14, F-15, B-1. 3x global 6000 erieye Firdaus – “Still years before we need this kind of platform””. Meaning the USAF has to rely on F-35 for more tasks than was intended, including high end air superiority tasks for which the F-22 was intended. As Fast As a Passenger Jet The Saab 2000. Please note that even tho the USN has the F 35 C then why the heck are they still ordering Super Hornets Block 3 for the Navy and USAF operates the F 35 A but they’re still using both F 16s and the F 15 Es and have ordered the F 15 X. Interested in other products? Despite the design compromises, STOVL has produced some unintended but positive outcomes. © 2021 DefenseWorld.net - ALL RIGHTS RESERVED, Saab Delivers First GlobalEye Surveillance Aircraft to UAE, U.S. Arms Sales to Middle East Ballooned During Yemen War, After JF-17 Fighter, Chinese J-11B Jet could be next on Pakistan’s Shopping List, S Korean KF-X Jet Prototype Advances amidst Indonesian Uncertainty, Why UAE’s MQ-9B Armed Drone Purchase Should Worry Iran. 5) EW jammer in the shape of global 6000 HavaSOJ. 6) additional ground surveillance radars Can we defend our airspace then without a 5th gen fighter with stealth features? “ did you know that stealth coating is also expensive? ” ” radar! 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