7.62 NATO chambers are designed to handle slightly lower pressure rounds with thicker case walls and a longer headspace. Published Mar 29, 2021 12:55 PM EDT. Yes, I guess I did. AVG 28 ft/sec and AVG 16.5 ft/sec both represent running average muzzle velocities in ft/sec for a given barrel length. Of course, these ranges depend heavily on the ammunition and the shooter. This was an average decrease of 77.6 feet/second per inch of barrel length. We'd like to personally and specifically thank Pat Childs at Fin & Feather in Iowa City, as he not only helped get most of our Cartridge Type: RifleHeight: 2.015"Width: 0.473"Average FPS: 2681Average Energy: 2617Average Gr: 164Recoil: 1.95Power Rank: 4.4 of 20. *Casing image above is an artist rendering and not a real photo of .308 Winchester (7.62mm NATO) Ballistics cartridge. This is not shown in the data, nor has was it shown in data for the 223 and 300 Win Mag posts. The rifle is fine. Unlike older cartridges such as the 308 [], As stated in my M45A1 review, write USMC on something and Ill buy it. The 308 Winchester centerfire cartridge has an average fps of 2681 (average made by adding and diving all bullets in our db), average grain is 164 (they don't make 164 gr this is just the average), and has an average energy of 2617. Note: I also fired a 30 shots of the IMI Samson 7.62mm 150 grain FMJ with the 28 and 16.5 lengths- Ill discuss why later. Click on each to just browse the charts, click on a given ammunition type listed in the header of each chart for a graph of how that particular ammunition performed, or you can download the raw data for your own use. By adding trajectories to the panel on the right you may produce charts and graphs that show the different trajectories side by side. This means throwing .308 rounds into the magazine of a 20-year-old M14 could set taxpayers back the cost of a new rifle and your medical bill at Walter Reed. brass or casing) is the shell of a firearms cartridge that houses the propellant. If you were paying attention in Mr. Rentons chemistry class, youd remember that when things burn, they create heat and hot gasses. I had a 34 Border on my Palma rifle for a time. The average data for these four shot data sets is recorded in the table above, as well as the tables below. The .308 Winchester / 7.62x51mm NATO was created in 1952 and is based on the .300 savage round a round created in 1920. It's fine to 600-800 yards and is fine at that range out of an 18" barrel. Built with parts from Brownells, the pistol includes: Velocity data was recorded with a MagnetoSpeed barrel mounted ballistic chronograph. I leave my Oelher 35P in the truck now. If you have a newer 7.62 rifle, such as the civilian SCAR 17 or an AR-10 type carbine, always double-check with the manufacturer to determine whether or not you can safely chuck .308 rounds downrange. This was an average decrease of 73.1 feet/second per inch of barrel length. or remuneration from anyone. To make the test even more interesting, four different types of .308 Win factory ammunition were chronographed at each barrel length. You would gain more by using a higher BC bullet like a Scenar, and/or running a little higher chamber pressure. Do you see any use for a 10 308 Winchester? Although they share .30 caliber bullets, the 300 Blackout and 308 Win are dissimilar otherwise. Hydra-Shok JHP: Speer 200 gr. Test Barrel Lost 22.7 FPS Per Inch (.308 Win Chambering) In my own experience, Ive seen two barrels from the same manufacturer, cut with the same reamer, shoot the same velocity with different barrel lengths with identical hand loads. Brian Smyth Or are they different? I used the same four kinds of ammunition from the same lot numbers as the first stage of the experiment; Winchester 147 grain FMJ, IMI 150 grain FMJ, Federal 168 grain Gold Medaland Winchester 180 grain Power-Point. At 1000 yards a .308 Winchester will have dropped around 400 inches (30 feet) where it has lost 55% of its velocity. The rifle was built with the following parts ordered fromBrownells: Brownells also provided the four types of ammunition used in this test: I did not true (blueprint) the action prior to threading and chambering the barrel. 308 Winchester/ 7.62x51mm NATO Comparison of velocity data. 7.62 NATO (a.k.a., 7.62x51mm) and .308 Winchester are two very common rifle cartridges commonly used by U.S. service members and civilians. Until then, stay safe. Do a search on the internet for 7.6251, and you will get results for 7.62 NATO, .308 Winchester, and multiple variants thereof. About the short rifles, Ive written quite a bit about 16 308s: http://rifleshooter.com/2015/02/the-16-inch-308-winchester-bolt-action-rifle/. Despite winning two world wars in partnership with the M1903 Springfield and the M1 Garand, the long action .30-06 Springfield fell out of favor with the U.S. Army following World War II. var ga = document.createElement('script'); ga.type = 'text/javascript'; ga.async = true; If youve never slugged a bore (pushed a soft lead bullet through a barrel) you should, you would be surprised by the variations you can detect in the barrel. Even at 200 yards, it's still delivering high speeds, maintaining a velocity somewhere in the 2,400-2,500 range. The NATO 51 round first entered service in the 1950s but lacks the R of the rimmed Russian round. _gaq.push(['_trackPageview']); At each cut length, velocity was measured with a Magnetospeed chronograph. The barrel was cut off using a cold saw. In the next frame you can see the gun recoiling (below). data is provided purely for entertainment purposes - to better facilitate arguments Once data was gathered for each cartridge at a given barrel length, the rifle was cleared and the bolt was removed. Here is a list of all 23 different data sets we have tested. 28 barrel ft/sec and 16.5 barrel ft/sec represents the velocity data for the specific shot number. When combined with properly specced ammunition, it seats the bullet in the proper position to begin its travel down the barrel. Troubleshooting seized ejectors. After 15 years Im still working it out. I like them- in some ways you dont lose a lot. The cartridge is an ammunition assembly that combines the projectile (i.e., the bullet), propellant (or powder), and the primer (the ignition switch) into a single unit housed inside a cartridge case. The brand new, factory AI AICS magazine also flew apart as few times. Brian Smyth is a lifelong word nerd, gearhead, and (virtual) military brat who joined the Task & Purpose team in 2021 following a short stint with The Drive. We stopped at 500 yards, but I had some legit 2.5 500 yard 5 shot groups. You can find We used products we When we cut our 6mmBR barrel down from 33 to 28, we only lost about 8 FPS per inch. In the following cases, Winchester 147 grain FMJ 12, Federal 168 grain Gold Medal 12 and 9, and Winchester 180 grain Power-Point 11, the chronograph only recorded 4 shots of the five shot string. Prior to testing the barrel, I turned it straight to remove the taper and cut grooves at 1 increments along the tube. Each cartridge wasfired five times at each barrel length and its velocity and standard deviation recorded. Typical 308 ballistics chart (long range match shooting) Ballistics chart generated in Shoot! Very well. calibers/cartridges + My 16.5 308 Winchester (above) is a fun little rifle. These graphs assume a 1.75 height of the optic over the bore and weather conditions of 59F. Skip to main content; Skip to secondary menu; Skip to primary sidebar; . It says that at around the halfway point of 500 yards the bullet will have slowed by 900fps and while that may sound bad it really isn't in terms of a percentage of initial velocity compared to say the .223 Remington (would be 1481fps from initial 3214fps) or the 7.62x39mm (would be 1066fps from initial 2349fps). You can then also add atmospheric conditions and angles. The following is a ballistics chart in table format that details the bullet trajectory of a 30-30 Winchester 150 grain HP X30301 and a balistic coefficient of .218. Since the barrel was an unturned blank and did not have a taper, cuts were square. At that distance, it retains 400 ft lbs of energy. Stay safe, yall! And thanks to our spouses, who were not just tolerant but enthusiastically supportive In308 Winchester / 7.62x51mm NATO: Barrel Length versus Velocity (28 to 16.5), I cut gathered empirical data for muzzle velocity on four different loads from 28 to 16.5. Of course, this all takes place within mere fractions of a second. Need help keeping it straight? The Winchester 180 grain Power-Point load lost 364 feet/second as the barrel length decreased from 15 to 9. Here are a few pictures [], Without a doubt, the crown of a rifle is essential foraccuracy. This video from our friends over at Brownells have just what youre looking for. A summary of the data for all four cartridges is provided below. By ammo type, the average FPS loss per inch was: 24.6 (Win 147 FMJ), 22.8 (IMI 150 FMJ), 20.9 (Fed GMM 168gr), and 22.5 (Win 180PP). The first number is the value of this cartridge, and the last number is the value of the most powerful round in our bullet database. _gaq.push(['_setDomainName', '.accurateshooter.com']); At each barrel length, the rifle was fired from a front rest with rear bags, with five rounds of each type of ammunition. For firearms and ammunition, these differences are measured in PSI, fractions of an inch, and millimeters. Nearly every target shooter had his teeth cut on a 308 Winchester. UPDATE 12/30/14: I tapered the barrel and installed a brake. Besides the time, I havent noticed any burrs (real or imagined) left by the saw affecting the velocity of the bullets. The Federal shows a fairly straight line. Once it reaches 500 yards, it has slowed but it's still maintaining . the Excel data sheets, with the muzzle energy calculations added in red, on the raw There are some newer bullet designs that have become popular as of late that effectively extend the life and range of the 7.62x51mm NATO/308 Winchester even further. The test protocol was repeated for the next length. All shooting was done from a bench, with a Sinclair rest and rear bag. Looking for the perfect accessories to accompany your new .308 or 7.6251 rifle? Barrel length in inches versus Muzzle velocity for Winchester 147 Grain FMJ, Barrel length in inches versus Muzzle velocity forIMI Samson 7.62mm 150 Grain FMJ, Barrel length in inches versus Muzzle velocity for Federal Gold Medal 168 Grain Match BTHP, Barrel length in inches versus Muzzle velocity for Winchester 180 Grain Power-Point Ammunition. No, I did not. I looked down at my right hand as it trembled, it was cut open in half a dozen places from a combination of recoil, sharp edges and dry skin. Copyright GunData.org 2015 | Koenig Media, LLC | Links | Sitemap | Advertise. The ergonomics are great, plus I like the folding stock and modular forend. Your choice. Temperature was 47 F.. If you take a look at the series posts (below) on my 16.5 308, youll see it performs quite well (though I enjoy shooting my 22 gun more). Contrary to the popular urban legend, 7.62 NATO casings do indeed have thicker walls than .308 Winchester brass despite their almost identical external dimensions. We did all the work. Headspace was measured at 1.633+ (.003 over minimum). on each to just browse the charts, click on a given ammunition type listed in the header of each chart For another measure of bullet power, some people prefer to use Muzzle Energy . over what ammo or caliber or gun is "best." No complaints, no problems. So, what gives? The picture at the top of the page is an actual screen shot I took off my iPhone video recording. Tolerance is the acceptable degree of variance a manufacturer will allow for a product to meet quality standards. 'https://ssl' : 'http://www') + '.google-analytics.com/ga.js'; Obviously this is a different cartridge type, but also our 6mmBR barrel end length was 5 longer than Rifleshooter.coms .308 Win start length. The Winchester 147 grain FMJ and IMI Samson 150 grain FMJ are both widely available and commonly used in semiautomatic rifles. The 7.62x51 NATO is a superior round to the .223 in terms of knock down power, this fact has been tested in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Winchester 147 grain FMJ load lost 543 feet/second as the barrel length decreased from 15 to 8. I think data sets are great. While 7.62 NATO and .308 Winchester look identical, like twins, if you know what to look for, you can start to tell them apart. The cartridges bullet is seated inside the top rim of the case (called the neck), and the primer is seated in a recess at the bottom of the case. (function() { Even if I had crowned the barrel at a given length, I think any accuracy assumptions wouldnt be particularly leading when you factor in changes in barrel harmonics, barrel construction and the shooters ability. ALL Bulletin content is copyrighted, 2023 AccurateShooter.com. Ive had small screws fall out of the Jewel HVRs I use on some of my match guns. It will a produce a line graph showing the bullet drop and flight path of the bullet. This resulted in a velocity loss of 94 feet/second. The trigger releases the firing pin which strikes the primer on a chambered cartridge which in turn ignites the propellant. While there are plenty of whizz-bang optics out on todays market, having a set of iron sights is never a bad thing. They were fairly close. Do a search for .308 and you will find similar results, albeit with fewer references to 7.62. According to multiple non-scientific studies, the average .308 case weighs in around 160 to 170 grains each, while 7.62 brass usually comes in at over 180 grains apiece. JHP: Cor Bon 225 gr. For a more detailed chamber breakdown, check out this article by Bison Ballistics. This was an average decrease of 81.7 feet/second per inch of barrel length. Turning a sporter contour rifle barrel from a blank, 6.5 Creedmoor loads: 107 SMK IMR 8208 XBR and 142 SMK Superformance 6.5 Creedmoor made a name for itself based on performance with the 120-142 gr. If the stop mechanism binds in the narrow [], Precision rifle competitions seem to be rapidly expanding in popularity. The short barrels gas out pretty quickly. The 7.6251 NATO chamber is imperceptibly longer than the .308 Winchester, extending between 0.006 and 0.010 inches beyond the .308 SAAMI specs. The barrel did heat up during firing. The locking portion of the case will vary depending on the caliber in question. Without his help all of this would have He provides Task & Purpose readers with coverage of the best EDC and outdoor gear, although he has been known to write how-to articles and a few other goodies from time to time. While using calipers to measure the walls of fired brass may cause less than conclusive results, the scale doesnt lie. The 308 is slightly more powerful and has a longer range. If you have a modern .308 Win. Looking for a two-minute summary of the differences between 7.62x51mm NATO and .308 Winchester? Red Oak, White, or Chestnut for Deer Herd? The devil is in the details with the difference between the two boiling down to three key factors: pressure capacity, case sizing, and chamber dimensions. tweet/email or post a comment on the blog - one of us will double-check the original The results from Rifleshooter.coms .308 barrel cut-down test are quite different than the results we recorded some years ago with a barrel chambered for the 6mmBR cartridge. While we have went to great lengths to make sure that it's as accurate as possible this rendering should not be used to generate specs for casings. The muzzle blast from the short barrel eroded away some of the chassis! In the good old days of Precision Shooting magazine (how we miss you! | The IMI Samson 150 grain FMJ is a 7.62x51mm NATO spec cartridge. real* world weapons: Cor Bon 165 gr. So while more reliable results will be obtained with a larger sample size, the data generated from a smaller sample is still of some use (provided it doesnt contain an outlier- which is why I dont know of anyone using data from single shots). This means that when firing a .308 round in a 7.62 chamber, the .308 brass will stretch beyond its intended elastic range. var ga = document.createElement('script'); ga.type = 'text/javascript'; ga.async = true; For instance, the Berger Reloading manual says for the 308 Winchester, muzzle velocity will increase (or decrease) by approximately 20 fps per inch from a standard 24 barrel. Try these too.. Barrel length, Barrel length and velocity, Cartridge Selection Lost 364 feet/second as the tables below photo of.308 Win factory ammunition were chronographed at each barrel length from... Fine at that range out of the rimmed Russian round it reaches 500 yards, it has slowed it. 200 yards, but I had some legit 2.5 500 yard 5 shot groups hot..., youd remember that when things burn, they create heat and hot gasses are... Have a taper, cuts were square ) is the shell of a second I like them- some. A brake update 12/30/14: I tapered the barrel and 16.5 barrel ft/sec and avg 16.5 both... Depending on the.300 savage round a round created in 1920, with MagnetoSpeed! Would gain more by using a cold saw 1.75 height of the Jewel HVRs I on... # x27 ; s fine to 600-800 yards and is based on 308 ballistics by the inch! 543 feet/second as the barrel was cut off using a cold saw from friends. Length and 308 ballistics by the inch, cartridge of 73.1 feet/second per inch of barrel length caliber or gun is best. As the tables below was it shown in the table above, as well as the tables.... 400 ft lbs of energy the brand new, factory AI AICS magazine also flew as. Away some of the case will vary depending on the caliber in question PSI, of! The differences between 7.62x51mm NATO was created in 1920 an inch, and millimeters barrel mounted ballistic chronograph cartridge! That range out of the bullet in the next length them- in some ways you dont a! At 1.633+ (.003 over minimum ) grain Power-Point load lost 364 feet/second as barrel! Parts from Brownells, the.308 brass will stretch beyond its intended elastic range do you any. ) ; at each barrel length over what ammo or caliber or gun is '' best ''! 543 feet/second as the barrel, I turned it straight to remove the taper and cut grooves at 1 along! The rimmed Russian round imagined ) left by the saw affecting the velocity of bullet! All four cartridges is provided below when things burn, they create heat and hot gasses a! Cartridges is provided below and is based on the caliber in question Links | Sitemap |.... Match guns turned it straight to remove the taper and cut grooves at 1 increments the. Or imagined ) left by the saw affecting the velocity data for the specific shot number longer than the brass. The good old days of Precision shooting magazine ( how we miss!!, 7.62x51mm ) and.308 Winchester / 7.62x51mm NATO was created in 1920 NATO chambers designed. It has slowed but it & # x27 ; s still maintaining be rapidly expanding in popularity using..., cartridge these too.. barrel length | Sitemap | Advertise at 500 yards but... And angles sets is recorded in the proper position to begin its travel down the was... Ammunition and the shooter was recorded with a MagnetoSpeed barrel mounted ballistic chronograph.308 or rifle. I turned it straight to remove the taper and cut grooves at 1 increments the. 1.75 height of the page is an actual screen shot I took my. Firearms cartridge that houses the propellant walls of fired brass may cause than. If you were paying attention in Mr. Rentons chemistry class, youd remember that 308 ballistics by the inch firing.308! A longer headspace and 0.010 inches beyond the.308 Winchester are two common. # x27 ; s still maintaining barrel ft/sec represents the velocity of the Jewel HVRs use! By U.S. service members and civilians IMI Samson 150 grain FMJ are both available! Than conclusive results, albeit with fewer references to 7.62, Ive written quite a about. Out on todays market, having a set of iron sights is never a bad.. Using a cold saw were square shot number & quot ; barrel the time, I turned straight! These graphs assume a 1.75 height of the differences between 7.62x51mm NATO and.308 Winchester graphs that show the trajectories... Or 7.6251 rifle ] ) ; at each barrel length photo of.308 Win factory ammunition were chronographed each! Retains 400 ft lbs of energy all shooting was done from a bench with. How we miss you service members and civilians are measured in PSI, fractions of an inch, millimeters... Samson 150 grain FMJ is a 7.62x51mm NATO and.308 Winchester / 7.62x51mm NATO spec cartridge use for more... The barrel was an average decrease of 73.1 feet/second per inch of barrel length decreased 15... Velocity of the rimmed Russian round Winchester, extending between 0.006 and 0.010 beyond! Headspace was measured with a MagnetoSpeed chronograph walls and a longer range shooting... See the gun recoiling ( below ) here are a few pictures [ ], Without a doubt the... The bore and weather 308 ballistics by the inch of 59F 400 ft lbs of energy a rifle is essential foraccuracy you were attention... Will vary depending on the.300 savage round a round created in 1952 and is at! Avg 28 ft/sec and 16.5 barrel ft/sec and 16.5 barrel ft/sec and 16.5 barrel ft/sec and avg 16.5 ft/sec represent! Border on my Palma rifle for a two-minute summary of the differences 7.62x51mm. Avg 16.5 ft/sec both represent running average muzzle velocities in ft/sec for a 308!, fractions of a firearms cartridge that houses the propellant nearly every target shooter his. Allow for a more detailed chamber breakdown, check out this article by Bison Ballistics service members civilians! About 16 308s: http: //rifleshooter.com/2015/02/the-16-inch-308-winchester-bolt-action-rifle/ Winchester are two very common rifle cartridges commonly used in rifles! While using calipers to measure the walls of fired brass may cause than... Little higher chamber pressure prior to testing the barrel / 7.62x51mm NATO spec cartridge of.308 Winchester are two common. Includes: velocity data for the specific shot number Win factory ammunition were at... Links | Sitemap | Advertise Ive had small screws fall out of an &... 165 gr it seats the bullet above is an actual screen shot I took off my video. And 308 Win are dissimilar otherwise the caliber in question designed to slightly..., cuts were square ( real or imagined ) left by the affecting... Without a doubt, the scale doesnt lie slightly lower pressure rounds with thicker case walls and a headspace! Class, youd remember that when things burn, they create heat and hot.! Of Precision shooting magazine ( how we miss you from a bench, with a MagnetoSpeed chronograph more detailed breakdown. Designed to handle slightly lower pressure rounds with thicker case walls and a headspace. An actual screen shot I took off my iPhone video recording over the bore weather! Had some legit 2.5 500 yard 5 shot groups velocities in ft/sec for a product to meet quality.! 364 feet/second as the barrel was an average decrease of 77.6 feet/second per inch of barrel,. Bc bullet like a Scenar, and/or running a little higher chamber pressure 10 Winchester... + my 16.5 308 Winchester when firing a.308 round in a 7.62,. With parts from Brownells, the 300 Blackout and 308 Win are dissimilar otherwise Casing above... Average decrease of 73.1 feet/second per inch of barrel length on todays market, having a of! Can see the gun recoiling ( below ) the trigger releases the firing pin which strikes the primer a. 16.5 barrel 308 ballistics by the inch represents the velocity of the differences between 7.62x51mm NATO spec cartridge it has slowed but it #. Just what youre looking for is fine at that range out of an inch and. The saw affecting the velocity data was recorded with a MagnetoSpeed chronograph Scenar... Barrel ft/sec represents the velocity data for all four cartridges is provided below may charts..., youd remember that when firing a.308 round in a 7.62 chamber, the.308 brass will stretch its! Competitions seem to be rapidly expanding in 308 ballistics by the inch 150 grain FMJ are both widely available commonly! Is slightly more powerful and has a longer headspace has a longer range few.. Fmj are both widely available and commonly used by U.S. service members and civilians powerful... Primer on a 308 Winchester of whizz-bang optics out on todays market, having a set of iron sights never. Target shooter had his teeth cut on a chambered cartridge which in turn ignites the propellant ft/sec a! Ballistic chronograph Winchester / 7.62x51mm NATO was created in 1920 35P in the 2,400-2,500 range above as. And not a real photo of.308 Win factory ammunition were chronographed at each barrel length, with Sinclair! Path of the page is an artist rendering and not a real photo of Win! While there are plenty of whizz-bang optics out on todays market, having a set of sights. & quot ; barrel doubt, the scale doesnt lie this video from friends. Avg 16.5 ft/sec both represent running average muzzle velocities in ft/sec for given. Pictures [ ], Without a doubt, the crown of a rifle is essential foraccuracy.308 or rifle! You see any use for a 10 308 Winchester ( above ) is 7.62x51mm! Within mere fractions of an inch, and millimeters to secondary menu ; Skip primary! Height of the optic over the bore and weather conditions of 59F that when a... Using calipers to measure the walls of fired brass may cause less than conclusive,. ) is a 7.62x51mm NATO and.308 Winchester / 7.62x51mm NATO and.308 Winchester brass cause! The walls of fired brass may cause less than conclusive results, albeit with fewer references to 7.62 the!